Harsh Thakkar (00:01)
All right. Thanks for joining this episode. And I'm super, super, super excited to have this guest on today. So usually we get people from life sciences who are either on the science side or either they're on the regulatory side or either they're on the operations side. Well, guess what? The guest we have today has done tons of stuff. He started his career in finance, then moved into law, then had a couple of operations and leadership type roles.

has managed regulatory side of things. He's sort of done it all kind of person. And I really, when I saw his LinkedIn profile and his resume, I was like, how is this person doing all these things? Like they're not even closely related or connected, but he has the experience, he has the educational background, all the credentials to do it. So I wanted to bring him on today, ask him how he started his career, how did he get into all these opportunities.

And what are the challenges? Because I can't think of myself doing five different things within the life science ecosystem. So we're going to talk a lot about that. And if you are interested in learning more, or if you are maybe in a leadership role and you want to learn from him, this is a must watch episode for you. So let's go right into it and have a chat with Tag. Welcome to the show, Tag.

Taggart McGurrin (01:23)
Thanks for having me, Harsh.

Harsh Thakkar (01:24)
Yeah, so as I mentioned in the intro, you started your career in finance, then you moved into law, then you've had roles in leadership, strategy, operations, you name it. To start off, did you ever think that you were gonna do all of this when you look at your career maybe 10, 20 years ago, or what was the moment when you decided that you wanted to venture out into all these areas?

Taggart McGurrin (01:54)
Sure, the answer, short answer is no. I don't think anyone does. I never even contemplated being in the pharmaceutical industry. I thought I was gonna be a lawyer since I was a little kid. So, but I am of the mindset that not everything that's complex must be complicated. And we know that life science is unquestionably complex. And I challenge anyone to find another industry with more areas of risk than life science. I mean, think of financing, development, scientific.

Harsh Thakkar (02:12)
Mm.

Taggart McGurrin (02:24)
regulatory, commercial risk, not to mention the cultural risk that you have with the teams that you build out. So that really begs the question why anyone would want to lead from the eye of a tornado. And for me, the bottom line always starts and ends with patients. They entrust us with their health and wellbeing. And I can't imagine a more chaotically rewarding way to do well by doing good. And I really...

Harsh Thakkar (02:34)
Mm.

Taggart McGurrin (02:50)
started with, mean, this is gonna, I'm gonna start with where I was born and raised and I'll jump forward quite a bit. I was born and raised in Clark Summit, Pennsylvania, just outside of Scranton, Pennsylvania, which is better known to everyone as the home of the office. I'm the oldest of four boys and I attended the University of Scranton, graduated with a dual BS MBA degree in accounting. After graduating, I found myself in Charlotte, North Carolina, pursuing a career in banking at Bank of America. While in Charlotte, I obtained my CPA license.

I knew, as I mentioned, I knew I was always going to be going to law school. So I matriculated at Temple Law School in 2013. And to answer your question directly, it was during that time that I reported on the Forbes inaugural, as I actually, I just had a look at it the other day, it was the first 30 under 30 convention at the Philadelphia Convention Center. And I had the distinct pleasure to speak with so many young entrepreneurs.

Harsh Thakkar (03:40)
Mm.

Taggart McGurrin (03:44)
On behalf of Temple Law School, they wanted me to write up a piece about the three day event. And one young such entrepreneur had driven straight from Chicago to Philadelphia, having booked a hotel for a few days in his car. So the energy was electric. And it was really then that I realized that I wanted to combine my financial and legal background. I've always been passionate about helping people and have really been on

Harsh Thakkar (03:59)
Hmm.

Taggart McGurrin (04:12)
undaunted by challenges. So I leapt at the opportunity to join a small pharma company shortly after law school.

Harsh Thakkar (04:18)
Yeah, and not many people know this, right? But, you know, after this episode, if they try to dig more about you and your journey, I know you've had a chief financial officer role and a chief operating officer role for the same company. And that itself, you know, when you think about it, just having one of those responsibilities, it brings a lot of stress, brings a lot of accountability. You've had both.

So if you were to give somebody a behind the scenes of what were the day to day challenges for you having both of those roles for that company, can you share some there?

Taggart McGurrin (05:01)
Sure, happy to. And it's certainly, it's not a party. Or if it was, it would be a chaotic one. But, you know, I think the key to managing a dual CFO, COO role is detail. And I can't stress the word enough. There's a movie, Denzel Washington is in it, it's called The Little Things. Wherein Denzel's character is obsessed with details and it's what makes him quite remarkable in the movie.

Harsh Thakkar (05:05)
Yeah.

Mm.

Taggart McGurrin (05:28)
So as a CFO, COO, have to be, you have to move from one meeting to the next. And you could be one moment you're with the clinical ops team. Next minute you're on an investor update call. Next call is a business development discussion. And then you might top it off with a regulatory affairs team call. So it's imperative to drill down on the details in each of the disciplines and understand how a communication from the FDA impacts, for example, your cashflow for the next six months.

So it's really all comes down to detail and continuity of business coverage across the organization.

Harsh Thakkar (06:04)
Yeah, and I don't know, I might be butchering this quote, but there is this quote that, know, little things become the big things or the devil lies in the details and stuff like that. So I've heard, I've heard multiple variations of that. And that's one thing that, you know, most people miss is, and I've learned this as I grow in my career is when you move into leadership roles or when you're at a C level,

you, you obviously have resources on your team. You know, you have budgets, you have people on your team. You're not doing all the work to, you know, you, you're basically managing, in that role, but you're basically getting paid to think, right. To think clearly, from all angles. And that's where, you know, paying attention to details is, is very important. And this is not just in life sciences, even in sports, even in like.

you know, other careers, when you are at that level where you are at the top of managing entire organization, even the tiniest details can, you know, help you make the right or wrong decision. So I'm glad that you stressing that. It sounds boring. Nobody wants to hear it, but I love it.

Taggart McGurrin (07:23)
Yeah, it can't be said enough and your point's well taken. mean, it really, comes down to the smallest details and really just working with your teams to ensure that those small details are not overlooked.

Harsh Thakkar (07:35)
Yeah. And, you know, we might have a lot of listeners here who are not from life sciences, who don't really know much about life sciences. So to give them a glimpse, you know, you're doing, you're managing a corporate strategy, you're managing the finances, you are in a heavily regulated industry like life sciences where, you know, pretty much everything you do in clinical trials leading up to commercial, you have to have documentation for the regulators and whatnot.

What is so unique about doing what you're doing, know, managing finances, leadership ops in life sciences that's very different from any other industry? What is that? What is something that people outside of life sciences don't really get? Can you share some of that?

Taggart McGurrin (08:23)
Yes, I mean, I have to say, ironically, there are insane amounts of pressure on life science executives to perform when really science controls the narrative, right? I mean, at the end of the day, science is what will drive success. Now, obviously, you need to be a steward of that, but even the most educated investor demands excellence, and I certainly appreciate that. So when you're blending strategy and innovation,

Harsh Thakkar (08:36)
Mm.

Taggart McGurrin (08:53)
Leaders in pharmaceutical and life science companies need to be creatively pragmatic. It's just different. It's what I like to call the triple threat. It's what you have, what you need, and what you want. And the best leaders really, and you had mentioned this before about teams, they encourage their teams to inform the executive decision-making because it really is a dynamic industry. And it's constantly changing. One number could be 10 one day and a thousand the next.

Harsh Thakkar (09:00)
Mm-hmm.

Taggart McGurrin (09:23)
And you've got to manage to that. And again, in certainly smaller startup pharmaceutical companies, every piece of the pie moves another piece of the puzzle. So it's imperative that you need to be consistently communicating with your team and understanding that investors still want high returns. It's a high-risk, high-reward world.

Harsh Thakkar (09:52)
Yeah, so I'm sorry, I'm gonna pause here. I'm here, is that the noise in the background? Okay. Yeah, let me see. So what, are they like going to be there?

Taggart McGurrin (09:54)
Yep. Yeah, that's the, and I got it. I'm happy to redo that one too, because it kind

Yeah, let me just check to see where they're at now with this. I might be able to insulate myself.

Harsh Thakkar (10:10)
Yeah.

Taggart McGurrin (10:18)
We try to go downstairs. I'll change my positioning. I can probably get to the back of the house. They picked a great day for this.

Harsh Thakkar (10:20)
Yeah.

Taggart McGurrin (10:32)
you

Is this bad or harsh?

Harsh Thakkar (10:55)
Yeah, this is much better.

Taggart McGurrin (10:58)
Okay, yeah, I think I was at the, let me see if I can set this up again.

Harsh Thakkar (11:03)
Yeah, this is much better.

Taggart McGurrin (11:05)
Okay, sorry, I don't know. Hopefully the background's okay here.

Harsh Thakkar (11:08)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. The background is perfectly fine. The couch or the clock or whatever, this is perfect, that's fine. All right, so let me see where we were at. Okay, so I was asking you what people outside of life sciences, yeah, I can ask that again. All right, what's one? Yeah, okay. All

Taggart McGurrin (11:28)
Yeah, let's, cause I think it cut in somewhere.

Harsh Thakkar (11:35)
Yeah, thanks for mentioning that. as you know, we have a lot of people who might be watching this show that are not in the life sciences industry that don't really understand the unique challenges. for somebody like you in your role, when you're dabbling with financial management strategy, leadership operations, getting compliance with regulations.

What is something unique to life sciences? What are some of the unique challenges to life sciences that maybe other industries don't have, other CFOs and chief operating officers don't have in other industries? Can you share some of that?

Taggart McGurrin (12:11)
Sure. So thanks for the question. I mean, ironically, there's an insane amount of pressure for life sciences executives to perform when at the end of the day, science controls the narrative. And of course, you've got the challenges with FDA. Tech companies don't necessarily have to answer to the FDA or certainly don't. But it doesn't change what the investor wants, right? Investors want high risk, high reward.

Harsh Thakkar (12:25)
Mmm.

Taggart McGurrin (12:40)
And that certainly is true in the life sciences industry. And even the most educated investor about life sciences demands excellence. And I can appreciate that because I am an investor and I do as well. But when you're blending corporate life science strategy and innovation, leaders need to be creatively pragmatic, right? Because there are certain things that you just can't change, but certainly with smaller

high growth startups, you need to be creative. And it's always what I like to call a triple threat. What do you have? What do you need? And what do you want? And certainly you always have what you have, but the need and want can be two totally different beasts. And so I always encourage other leaders to really push their teams to inform the executive decision-making because your regulatory affairs team, your clinical design team,

Harsh Thakkar (13:17)
Hmm.

Taggart McGurrin (13:36)
Those are the folks that understand the ever-changing dynamics of the life science industry and allowing them, I shouldn't say allowing, should say supporting their positioning as you carry out corporate goals and objectives is key to success in the life sciences industry.

Harsh Thakkar (13:56)
Yeah, and you broke it down really simply there because you said what you have, what you want, and what you need, right? Is that correct? Is that the three? Yeah, so that's very interesting. And to me, I'm thinking it's not even just for an organization. It could also be for a person. If you wanna go somewhere in your career, it's a great way to...

Taggart McGurrin (14:08)
That's correct.

Harsh Thakkar (14:25)
compass to basically analyze where are you in your career? What do you want? What do you need? And sometimes we want a bunch of things that really don't, maybe we're not thinking long-term, in that short-term we want it, but the more we think about it, maybe that's not what we want. So it's really good that you mentioned that that's the lens to look at, because that simplifies a lot of the things for

people in life sciences who are in these executive roles.

Taggart McGurrin (14:56)
Absolutely. there's actually, I'll share this with you. Anecdotally, I spoke with the CEO of Enzemed at one point in time and he had given me some really sage advice and he said, don't always look for the home run. You can get to home base by hitting a single or a double. And I think that that's also critical, not only in life sciences, but also in your career development.

Harsh Thakkar (15:03)
Hmm.

Right.

Yep.

Yeah, yeah, think, yeah, this I've heard the same analogy for, know, in like, compared to football, it's like, you don't have to throw a touchdown on every play, right? You just have to get the 10 yards, get the first down and, and get closer to the end zone. Yes, you can throw it, but if, but there's also a risk doing that, right? So yeah, I've heard that one before. I know you talked about tech. So this is something that I've heard a lot of people.

Taggart McGurrin (15:36)
That's right.

Harsh Thakkar (15:47)
in life sciences and pharma. I don't want to say complaining, but just thinking of it like they have an unfair, like tech industry has an unfair advantage where they don't have a lot of regulation unless there is a spotlight on a particular topic. So lot of the big tech companies had to answer.

to regulators once AI became mainstream. And then we know OpenAI and all the other tech companies had to basically come and show how they built these models and whatnot. up until then, nobody really is looking there, right? Unless they start going into digital health and digital therapeutics, then maybe FDA is gonna show up at their door. But I've heard life sciences always say that it's really hard to innovate because...

Literally everything has to be explained or demonstrated to the regulators and it's slowing down innovation So what is your take on that? Do you think the the executives in life sciences are correct that there's too much regulation and it's slowing down and If they can't change that, you know, if they can't change what the FDA expectations are how do they manage the fine line between? meeting the regulations and also like

pushing the envelope on the innovation side.

Taggart McGurrin (17:10)
Yeah, I mean, you know, look, if it was easy, everybody would be doing it, right? I mean, it is something that is just, it's inherent in the life sciences industry that there's amazing amounts of regulation and regulation can be a great thing. mean, you know, take cryptocurrency, for an example, bringing regulation to that industry is key to its longevity. I think that, you know, it's less to me about how much regulation and more about

Harsh Thakkar (17:14)
Yeah.

Taggart McGurrin (17:37)
informed decision-making based upon having the right conversation with the regulators. planning for success and really designing clinical trials that will meet the needs and requests, hopefully they're clear, right, from the FDA, is key to ensuring that you're really driving market aligned planning for successful approval and commercialization. So I really think it has to do more with, again, this is back to the details.

when you're in the meetings, being able to ask the right questions, pick up on certain things that the regulators are saying, and make sure you're driving that back into the organization. Because extensively, in my mind, the FDA is an extension of every single life sciences team out there. So I look at it more as an extension rather than inhibiting our abilities to succeed in.

Harsh Thakkar (18:23)
Hmm.

Right, yeah, no, absolutely. I agree with you there. I wanna switch gears and move from innovation and regulation to specifically on finance and maybe go a little bit deeper there. I haven't really interacted with a lot of people who are executives in finance roles. I don't, to me, that's like a really a gray area. I don't really understand how any of that works. But since you are here and you've had positions in...

managing finances within life sciences. Can you share what are some of the financial hurdles that you have faced in your past roles that you've discussed with the executive team, specifically within life sciences, and how did you overcome those in a CFO role?

Taggart McGurrin (19:16)
Sure, I don't care what anyone says, cash is always a pain point. And I mean, think that's true across every industry, every person, it's a constant issue. one thing you hear a lot about these massive raises, right? For instance, an example is, and I'm just making this up, you get a $250 million check and the champagne is certainly well-deserved and there's a moment of celebration. But prudent leaders need to understand that

Harsh Thakkar (19:22)
Yep.

Mmm.

Taggart McGurrin (19:46)
this cash is going into the pharma fire, is what I like to call it. And what do I mean by pharma fire? mean, how much time does the company have to hit critical value inflection points before the campfire goes cold? The answer is almost not a lot. And so, after an initial raise, you have to be thinking, when's the next raise? And what do we need to ensure that our valuation increases at the time that we have to go back out to look for work capital?

Harsh Thakkar (19:51)
Yep.

Yeah.

Taggart McGurrin (20:14)
or there's a certain deal to be done. I think all too often capital gets deployed on, quite frankly, nonsense. It's easy to do when you've got, I don't think, I'll speak for myself, not having $250 million, I suppose from an executive standpoint, it's probably easier to spend when you eventually, you have it. And of course it's something that's, it's your capital for the company, but you need proper risk adjusted modeling, really detailed clinical trial design,

Harsh Thakkar (20:22)
Hmm.

Taggart McGurrin (20:44)
with the appropriate timelines. I mean, that's key and they always shift and you need really robust and honest team discussions, sometimes tough ones. mean, I'm a big fan of going into the discussions and asking, what are we doing wrong? Where are we failing? Where's the downstream and around the corner? What issues are we going to face? Because at the end, if you spend the money, truly spend it in a way that it's always driving value, then in principle,

Harsh Thakkar (20:58)
Hmm.

Taggart McGurrin (21:11)
dollars should result in good data or great data, assuming science cooperates, of course.

Harsh Thakkar (21:14)
Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. Going back to, like you said, know, in life sciences, science dictates the narrative. You can throw as much money as you want at the solution or at the, you know, clinical trial or whatever it is. But ultimately, you know, if the data isn't positive, we've seen many companies, you know, fall overnight just because of that. So.

Taggart McGurrin (21:42)
Absolutely.

Harsh Thakkar (21:43)
Yeah, and talking about investing and raising capital, so that's also another topic that many people might be curious to know more about. What is one thing that makes raising capital for life science companies more difficult or unique than other industries? I'm sure you've been involved in a lot of deals. Can you share some examples or something that might help people or companies?

be aware of if they're trying to raise capital now or in 2025.

Taggart McGurrin (22:15)
Sure, I mean, in this current environment and for the past few years, it's been tough. There's been a dearth of IPOs and look, good investors understand the high risk, high reward trade-offs in life sciences, or they certainly should. I think that the challenges for leaders in this space is to understand before they're in front of investors, they're looking at structuring financing deals.

Harsh Thakkar (22:21)
Yeah.

Taggart McGurrin (22:44)
how are you going to bring in capital to operationalize the company? When to approach investors? There's a time component to this. What the appropriate type of investor profile is given the value proposition. There's different narratives out there that will fit one investor profile versus another. And certainly your time is best spent ascertaining which is the right investor to target.

Harsh Thakkar (22:52)
Mm.

Taggart McGurrin (23:13)
And lastly, you need to understand where those pools of capital reside and why those identified investor profiles should pay attention to your story. It's funny, you'll hear a thousand no's for every yes, but leaders still need to be able to say no to the yes. And what do I mean by that? And it's hard. It sounds counterintuitive, if, and recall I term the triple threat, what you want,

Harsh Thakkar (23:24)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Yes.

Taggart McGurrin (23:42)
what you need and what you have. Great leaders are empowered to vet their investors just as the investors have to vet the opportunities. And so you don't need to be out there and be, you you don't want to be desperate. You want to understand what types of investors you're bringing in and how they've supported companies in the past because just like they have to, you know, they're on the roller coaster with you, you're on the roller coaster with them and you want.

Harsh Thakkar (23:53)
Mm-hmm.

Taggart McGurrin (24:11)
an investor that's gonna support you and that understands the particular indications or drugs that you're developing very well, that's a huge, that having that support system is a huge help as you're moving along, because without question, once you start, you will encounter so many different problems that you never thought you were gonna encounter, and having your base of investors there to help you through those tough moments is absolutely.

Harsh Thakkar (24:39)
Yeah. And I have to admit that, you know, in the, I think I've had one other person on this podcast, maybe 20 or so episodes before this, and he's into the life sciences investing side. has his own, you know, wealth management firm, whatever you want to call it investment firm. And he also mentioned similar things. He's like, you know, he goes out with executives at biotech companies or his portfolio of companies.

And he's always basically asking them, hey, what are the three problems you're trying to solve in this quarter? Like, what are your three burning problems? And how can I help you? Like, are you trying to hire somebody? Are you trying to raise money? Are you trying to navigate maybe a regulatory topic with the agency? Like, he basically wants to know that. And if he can't help it, he wants to like connect.

the executive to like five other people and say, hey, go talk to John, go talk to Katie or go talk to so and so. I know them and he's basically going to every conversation with the mindset of how I can help. Right? So like you said, as a pharma company or a biotech company executive, you want those kinds of investors on your side who are coming to the table with like, hey, how can I help you? Because we both have skin in the game, right?

Taggart McGurrin (26:02)
Absolutely. And as I said, know, FDA is an extension of the team. Your investor pool is an extension of the team. And those, the investors that ask where your pain points are, and you know, if I can help or I've got someone that, you know, would be interested in this opportunity that could help, those are the best kind of investors.

Harsh Thakkar (26:20)
Yeah, absolutely. I had so many questions for this, like about your law background and we're like not even halfway done. But I do want to ask you, your law background, know, studying healthcare law, doing all of that. How do you, I'm guessing you are, lot of companies and lot of people reach out to you to get that expertise because

Technically for selfish reasons, you know, they might think you instead of hiring three people They should just hire you because you can do basically three people's Think like three different people. But how do you? When you are in these discussions, when do you go? lean into your law knowledge, when do you lean into your finance knowledge, do you have like a framework of how you operate or you're basically taking it like roll by roll and whatever the

the company that you're working with needs.

Taggart McGurrin (27:21)
Yes, I mean, it certainly is role by role, but I mean, one thing I didn't realize in law school is that every action I take as a leader in life sciences is within the context of regulatory and legal compliance. It doesn't matter whether you're putting together an investment deck, doesn't matter whether you're involved in clinical trial design, obviously talking with investors. Corporate strategy is not a point of sale transaction. And I think that's a mistake that

Harsh Thakkar (27:34)
Mm.

Mm.

Taggart McGurrin (27:51)
I've certainly seen the mistake made. It's one that I would prefer to avoid. It's rather than a point of sale transaction. Every decision and action taken has downstream effects and the identification of legal issues and they permeate the entire organization. So you always have to have that hat on and I'm fortunate enough to have it because it's a great help. But.

the identification of the legal issues and the risk mitigation strategies to address them are really critical to what investors want, flawless execution on the business's goals and objectives. And I can't, I cannot...

This is the word I'm looking for here. I can't think of the word. I'll pause there, yeah. I was gonna say emphasize, there it is.

Harsh Thakkar (28:38)
No worries, it's okay. Yeah, you can pause there. We can cut this out. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, go ahead. You can redo that part.

Taggart McGurrin (28:50)
Sure. And I can't emphasize enough how important it is to keep the legal hat on as you're involved in any area of the business, because there are always legal issues in every area of the business. And that is one of the reasons why I think the discussions that I have with my current clients and when I'm involved with companies, they like to have me in the room because there are certain things that you don't know what you don't know.

Harsh Thakkar (29:20)
Yeah, Yeah, if there are any other CFOs, CEOs, or C-level executives listening to this episode and nodding their head as to everything that you've shared or reflecting on what they've been through in their journey, or maybe there are other people who are aspiring to be CFOs and C-level executives in the coming few years, what do you think is one

massive non-negotiable leadership quality that C-level executives and life sciences need to have, especially with all the advancements in technology. You talked about cryptocurrency, there's blockchain, there's AI, there's machine learning. mean, on the technology side, we're going to see some huge changes in how we do things in the next 10 years. So what's your one non-negotiable leadership quality that a C-level must have?

Taggart McGurrin (30:18)
You've got to be relentless. mean, that's, it's maybe resilience, relentless resilience. mean, it's really tough because you get so many, there's so many things that can go wrong and there's so many things that don't go according to plan. But that's why you have to think creatively pragmatic to ensure that you're still pushing the business along and you're not getting down, but you've got another answer. There's another play. mean, quite frankly,

Harsh Thakkar (30:20)
Mm.

Taggart McGurrin (30:48)
That's why people wanna hire CFOs or COOs or a combination of the both because they're able to think their way out of problems and constantly solving problems. It's not for the faint of heart, but it's really just that I would say that the relentless resilience is a critical component, perhaps top trait that I look for with various team members that I bring on.

Harsh Thakkar (31:10)
Great, and for our listeners, if you've enjoyed this conversation, if you enjoyed learning about TAG and all these different topics that we haven't discussed in the past or with this type of guest, please, please, please subscribe to the YouTube channel or follow us on Apple and Spotify platforms. The more subscribers and followers we get, the more we can bring other exciting guests and exciting topics to the show. So you do your part and I'll make sure that we bring

you know, more exciting guest in life sciences with a wide range of background and skills just like Tag. So Tag, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Before we drop off, where can people connect with you, learn more about you, learn what you're up to?

Taggart McGurrin (31:57)
Sure, I'm always active on LinkedIn. That's probably the best place to get me and be happy to field any additional questions, advice, or I'm always a student, always learning. So if anyone has any ideas or thoughts that they'd like to run by me, I'd be thrilled to, I'd be much welcome.

Harsh Thakkar (32:16)
Yeah, and thanks again for coming and being so open and sharing everything that you've learned and all your experience. Before I hit the stop button on my screen here, what's one takeaway that you want people to remember from this episode?

Taggart McGurrin (32:33)
You know, I think the one thing that I continue to think about is I just recently got married and everybody gives you a lot of advice around that time. And I think it's important to actually implement the advice that we're given. And seriously, very few of us ever do. So if there's one person out there that would decide to take this advice to the bank, I would say really, you know, continue to be relentlessly curious and unabashedly pursue excellence.

That's my advice for anybody.

Harsh Thakkar (33:03)
Yeah, that's gold. Thank you so much and thank you for listening to this one. I will see you in the next. Thanks.

Taggart McGurrin (33:10)
Thank you, Harsh.