Harsh Thakkar (00:01.314)

All right, we're live. Welcome to another episode of Life Sciences 360. My guest today is somebody who's doing a lot of amazing things in Houston, a lot of amazing things in cell therapy, and I'm sure you're gonna enjoy this conversation. Let's dive in and talk to Dr. Jason Bock, founder and CEO of CTMC, which stands for Cell Therapy Manufacturing Center. Welcome to the show, Jason.

Jason Bock (00:26.408)

Thanks so much for having me, Harsh.

Harsh Thakkar (00:28.29)

So CTMC is a very unique company from what I researched. Do you wanna tell the listeners how the idea to form this company came about?

Jason Bock (00:40.552)

Sure. So previous to moving to Houston, I had a more than 20 year career in small, medium, and large sized biotech and biopharma. Developing complex biologics treatments, figuring out how to manufacture those, delivering them to patients, and ultimately scaling those and commercializing those. And then about seven years ago, when the first cell therapies for oncology were

gaining quite a bit of notoriety and were being commercially approved, it was really interesting to me that this whole new class of treatments that were living drugs that offered the potential of curative treatments with a single dose were becoming a reality. And yet it was clear that the manufacturing and the CMC development for these was going to be really challenging. And I was sort of...

pride myself on doing really hard things. So I'm like, that looks really hard, let's try and do that. And in parallel and somewhat unconnected, some of the leadership through friends of friends at MD Anderson had gotten in touch with me and we started talking about what we could do together in a very differentiated way. And it struck me that,

you know, if you think about the most basic level for autologous cell therapies where you start with the patient's own cells, then manufacture, engineer them, and then reintroduce those into the same patient, it's a very novel supply chain for a biopharmaceutical where you begin with the actual patient and then end with the patient as a standard. And so it just sort of made intuitive sense to me that, hey, we...

with MD Anderson being the number one cancer center in the world and having more patients on clinical trials than any other place, doing something to co -localize manufacturing of these complex cell therapies with where all the patients were could be very differentiating. And so that's why I packed up my family. We moved down to Houston.

Harsh Thakkar (02:38.434)

Mm -hmm.

Harsh Thakkar (02:56.738)

Hmm.

Jason Bock (03:03.624)

founded this new group within MD Anderson to help faculty members industrialize their cell therapies, bring them into the clinic for proof of concept studies, doing that in a robust way so those ones that work were ready to move on to late phase studies and hopefully commercialization. As we began developing that model for initially MD Anderson invented products, biotech companies started coming to us and saying, hey, can you help us do?

that same thing, you have all the internal resources to do it, why don't we partner and co -develop products together? And so we signed a number of co -development partnerships with Biotech as well. And then just about two years ago, things were going so well that we decided to spin the group out of MD Anderson and formed a joint venture with another amazing company, National Resilience, it was focused on...

Harsh Thakkar (03:35.106)

Mm.

Jason Bock (04:00.616)

innovative approaches to complex biologics manufacturing. And so we've been operating this way for almost two years. Over that time, we've filed six INDs on novel products, novel cell therapies, initiated clinical studies, and really trying to find an efficient way of moving products from research stage into the clinic and understanding how well they work.

Harsh Thakkar (04:30.946)

That's a fascinating story because it sounds like you were, like you said, you were already doing the work at MD Anderson and a lot of the biotech companies came to you because the organization had a reputation in the cancer research space. So it sounds like a little bit of luck, but you were also in the right place at the right time with the right team. So walk me through like...

when you were defining the vision or strategy of CTMC as it was being formed, whether it was with your group of people or whether some of the conversations that you had with Resilience to say, hey, this is how we should go and can you give us some back door or behind the scenes stories of how that came?

Jason Bock (05:16.648)

Sure. You know, basically the simple way of saying is, I think a good way of forming a business or a solution is finding things that most people find really hard and things that are relatively easy for you to do. And so I said like running early stage cell therapy clinical trials is really challenging for biotech companies. They have to coordinate between manufacturing site,

Harsh Thakkar (05:34.082)

Hmm.

Jason Bock (05:46.376)

multiple clinical sites. This is all on -demand manufacturing. So as you enroll a patient in a clinical study, you have to line up a manufacturing slot, produce that batch and get it back to that patient very quickly. Sadly, there's a clock on these clinical studies. The patients are very sick and so literally can't wait very long. So being very efficient about it is important. And so what I saw is,

other people doing everything in like this, the old way of doing over like, hey, this is how we did monoclonal antibodies. So let's do cell therapies this way. But we had a chance to rethink that. And the MD Anderson guys were very open to doing innovative and different approaches. And so they bought into it in a significant way. And so we actually acquired a local self,

local biotech companies, cell therapy development and manufacturing facilities, Bellicom Pharmaceuticals, and MD Anderson bought that facility from them. So again, a very unusual thing for an academic medical center to be buying a facility from a biotech company. And I really give a lot of credit to the MD Anderson guys. And I think in general, I would say the Houston and even the Texas mindset of...

Harsh Thakkar (06:49.954)

Hmm.

Jason Bock (07:12.712)

wanting to do impactful things, wanting to do big, bold ideas that can move the needle, not just, let's do something like everyone else does. So that was the idea of like, we have a chance to do something in a very differentiated way that could help accelerate the transformation that I think cell therapy will bring. And, you know,

Harsh Thakkar (07:24.514)

yet.

Harsh Thakkar (07:37.954)

Hmm.

Jason Bock (07:41.48)

Humbly, I think we're well along that way with the number of new cell therapies that we brought into the clinic and some of the clinical results we've already seen.

Harsh Thakkar (07:53.346)

Yeah, I mean, when I was doing research for this, I also saw you talked about Impactful and that reminds me you were selected or nominated on the medical makers list of 2024. So what does that kind of recognition mean to you and for the team that you work with?

Jason Bock (08:13.928)

Yeah, thanks for recognizing that. I was very honored to receive this, the Medicine Maker's Power List for advanced therapies. I think it's just a recognition of thinking of innovative, let me say it this way. I think we have this amazing opportunity, cell therapies, having a single dose that can cure,

Harsh Thakkar (08:23.266)

Yep.

Jason Bock (08:44.104)

you know, horrendous diseases like cancer is an amazing opportunity that many of us in biotech and biologics research have worked our whole careers towards. And it's somewhat within reach.

And it's going to happen. I think it's inevitable. It's going to happen.

But if we are really thoughtful and intentional about the approaches we take, I think we can accelerate that transformation. And that was the concept that MD Anderson really bought into. And that was what the team at Medicine Makers saw as like, hey, we're doing something differently. And that overall is helping individual.

companies, individual products, but also demonstrating a different path that I hope will accelerate the whole field of cell therapy and what it can do for starting with cancer patients. Now we're actively involving autoimmune diseases and I think it'll transform the whole way healthcare is administered.

Harsh Thakkar (10:00.13)

Yeah. And, and you know, this is, like I said, this is such a unique company. And as you were saying, you know, uh, academic institution buying a facility for, for manufacturing. No, that's not common, uh, to do. So looking at what you did with the resilience team in forming CTMC, do you think there are other, uh, academic institutions trying to follow your blueprint and maybe do this not in cell therapy, but maybe in.

other areas or do you think that have you heard of any such, you know, projects that are ongoing or what do you think this is going to do for the future? I think it's better for the industry and research and patients overall, but I think you took the leap and now I think there's a lot of people that are going to follow your blueprint there.

Jason Bock (10:48.424)

Yeah, I think you're right. Somewhat of a blueprint, although I think what's important and part of the reason I moved to Houston specifically to work at MD Anderson is because I think it's a fairly unique organization at the scale that it operates at, the depth of scientific focus that has on oncology.

Harsh Thakkar (11:08.994)

Hmm.

Jason Bock (11:16.744)

And so I think some of the things that we're able to do here are going to be difficult to replicate because we will, and that's epitomized in the joint venture. What we wanted was a depth of scientific and oncology cancer understanding that comes and volume of patients that comes from working with Andy Anderson. And yet a focus on industrial manufacturing, not academic manufacturing, not just, you know, get things done, but really like,

How can we differentially focus on rigorous manufacturing and then combining those two? So I think that's a tricky combination, a tricky nut to crack. I think there are some amazing academic institutions that have great science, maybe not the scale that MD Anderson has, and there's some great facilities with industrial manufacturing.

finding a way to marry those two together is a big challenge and I think that's what differentiates us. So I think it's going to be a bit challenging to copy in other ecosystems exactly like we have.

Harsh Thakkar (12:32.258)

Right, right. Yeah, it's, yeah, we'll have to see, you know, what other kind of projects or initiatives come out of this. But talk to me about, you know, having the facility, the CTMC, the facility in Houston, you have the team there, you have the MD Anderson Center right there, you have the close access or proximity to the patients. Everything is like right in that, in that town, like,

I know you thought about this and you wanted this vision to turn into a reality, but how lucky or valuable do you think it is for your team to have that access to patience and all the talent, right, in Houston?

Jason Bock (13:12.776)

The short answer would be very lucky and very valuable. I have this phrase that I really latched onto for a long time that luck is where preparation meets opportunity. Actually, you can control both of those to some extent. So preparation means, do you have a good idea? Are you ready to take advantage of opportunities when they present themselves? And then opportunities, I think.

Harsh Thakkar (13:16.61)

Yep.

Harsh Thakkar (13:27.65)

Yep.

Jason Bock (13:42.568)

are somewhat spontaneous, but putting yourself in an environment where you get exposed to a lot of opportunities gives you more surface area for running into good ones. And so being prepared to take advantage of opportunities oftentimes looks like luck. And I have to say, we were very lucky that...

the facility I'm sitting in today became available at a time when we were interested in it. But that was partially because I had already moved down to Houston, had been talking to the leadership about the need for an industrial facility. And so when I brought to them this opportunity to acquire a facility, they were like, this is what you've been talking about for the last six months? I'm like, yeah. And even when I was being recruited to discuss with them the opportunity, I'm like,

Harsh Thakkar (14:31.394)

Yep.

Jason Bock (14:39.24)

I remember specifically, and it really was impactful to me in my decision when I talked with the president of MD Anderson, Peter Pisters. And he's a busy guy, I had about 15 minutes with him. And he's like, you know, what question can I answer for you? I was like, my number one question is, you know, do you want to do big things? Or is this going to be like, hey, a nice academic initiative that we say we're doing something, but it's just playing around? Because if you want to do big things,

Harsh Thakkar (15:07.554)

Mm.

Jason Bock (15:09.032)

I'm all in. If you just want to, you know, say you're doing something, I have to say the leadership at Empty Anderson lives that motto of the motto they have that's on the on the walls is do no small things. Really is they're the number one cancer center and they take that position very seriously and try and do things that they can do that other people can. And so he's like, we want to do big things.

Harsh Thakkar (15:25.858)

Hmm, interesting.

Jason Bock (15:38.088)

So I jumped in with both feet. And then when I brought the opportunity to acquire this biotech company's facility, he's like, so this is what you were talking about? So we had sort of done the preparation to take advantage of the opportunity.

Harsh Thakkar (15:50.146)

Yeah.

Harsh Thakkar (15:57.058)

Yeah, I can sense the excitement and I can almost visualize you talking to him and pitching this story. And it's still, it's just, it's amazing. Yeah.

Jason Bock (16:08.104)

Yeah, despite all the preparation and things I talked about, I still, I'm even surprised at how much this concept has caught on. We've been able to grow. We're over 90 people now, the six INDs. And just the interest and the hunger to hear.

you know, how we approach things and the ability we have to influence has been humbling in many ways and surprising as well. My five -year plan had much slower growth and not doing this scale of activities. I think we finished my five -year plan in about a year and a half.

Harsh Thakkar (17:03.874)

That's...

Yeah, that's, I think you're, if you did this from 2022 to 2020, what is it 2024? I don't know what you're gonna do in the next five years, but I'll be following you pretty closely. Yes. Yeah, so you mentioned about some of the challenges in cell therapy. I worked at Juno Therapeutics, a cell therapy company back in 2018 and that went up.

Jason Bock (17:22.504)

got some interesting things we're cooking up, so stay tuned.

Harsh Thakkar (17:37.186)

you know, got acquired by Cellgene and BMS. I think at that time, Kite and Novartis were, Novartis had Avexes that they acquired for the cell therapy product. So I know from my time working there, like you mentioned, you know, having the patients, because there's no product, you're dealing with the patient's blood or you're engineering those cells and giving it back to the patient. So the chain of identity and chain of custody is very important.

But outside of that, just what are some of the other challenges in cell therapy manufacturing that you are seeing with the biotech companies that CTMC has worked with?

Jason Bock (18:19.464)

So many interesting challenges. These are living cells and so they change by the hour. And so really maintaining tight control over, you know, process control over that is really important. Just like with the early stages of antibodies, I think our analytics are, to be honest, very primitive still in our ability to really understand.

the attributes of these cells and what makes them good cells and bad cells, if you will. Maybe I'm getting too much gray hair now. I remember back when we were releasing antibodies by running an SDS page gel and staining it with Comasi and saying, oh, there's one band, so it's probably a pure protein. Over the last 20, 25 years, the analytics got so much better that we could really understand.

the molecular changes in antibodies. That's going to need to happen in cell therapy so we can really understand the differences from one batch to another. And the sheer volume of the number of batches that are produced. When I commercialized some of our antibodies, we maybe only had six batches during all of clinical development.

Harsh Thakkar (19:44.514)

Hmm.

Jason Bock (19:44.552)

that we would file in a BLA, maybe nine, in cell therapy because every batch is a single dose. We would have...

hundreds of batches that would go into a PLA. And so just maintaining control over that amount of data is going to be critical. And that's why one of the things that we've also initiated here and part of the partnership with Resilience is moving to all digital quality systems. And so by the end of next year, everything we do will be electronic and automated and integrated to manage that.

Harsh Thakkar (20:16.13)

Mm -hmm.

Jason Bock (20:26.376)

just like you said, maintain the chain of identity and patient segregation, and at the same time allow efficient production and review and rapid release of a large number of batches. So I think those elements are really specific to cell therapy. Large number of batches, the proximity of patients just makes everything easier, so you don't have to worry about organizing planes and things. Houston also.

is a great place if you do need to organize planes. So centrally oriented in the US that basically everything is a three hour plane ride to any place. So also serves very well for as we start to run trials outside of MD Anderson and scale to run multi -center trials. Houston is ideally suited to support those as well.

Harsh Thakkar (21:24.194)

And this is another question that I had for you because you talked about six INDs that CTMC has done. And I don't remember how many companies you said, biotech companies you've worked with since.

Jason Bock (21:41.832)

We've publicly announced four.

Harsh Thakkar (21:46.402)

Four, okay. So my question was, now you have CTMC, you have the biotech or therapeutic company, then you have resilience that is giving you access to their resources, you have MD Anderson Center, so when you go for a regulatory filing, how do you navigate who's responsible for what or where the data is coming from which organization and how do you even defend that to, you know,

regulatory agencies like, hey, here's the four players that are involved in this trial. Because it's not usual, you know.

Jason Bock (22:23.368)

Yeah, that's a good point. Actually, and Harsh, I'm glad you bring that up because I think the, I didn't mention this before, but I think the regulatory aspects are incredibly important for cell therapy as well. The FDA is evolving as quickly as they can and I think doing an amazing job of pouring a lot of resources in to catch up with cell therapy.

Harsh Thakkar (22:37.57)

Hmm.

Jason Bock (22:53.)

I think is, you know, oftentimes what I hear is, you know, the amount of data that was needed to support like the initial CAR T, BLA approvals may not be enough even now to support cell therapy IND. Because the bar has moved up so quickly as our understanding of what's important for these therapies has evolved so rapidly. So that's a very important aspect.

Harsh Thakkar (23:11.746)

Mmm.

Jason Bock (23:22.632)

of how we constructed CTMC, where the way we work with all of our partners is to have MD Anderson act as the IND sponsor, because they have a very strong relationship with FDA. We at CTMC author and compose all of the...

and we have a lot of data that we can use to get to the end of the day. So, we have a lot of data that we can use to get to the end of the day. So, we have a lot of data that we can use to get to the end of the day. So, we have a lot of data that we can use to get to the end of the day. So, we have a lot of data that we can use to get to the end of the day. So, we have a lot of data that we can use to get to the end of the day. So, we have a lot of data that we can use to get to the end of the day. So, we have a lot of data that we can use to get to the end of the day. So, we have a lot of data that we can use to get to the end of the day. So, we have a lot of data that we can use to get to the end of the day. So, we have a lot of data that we can use to get to

Jason Bock (24:20.264)

And then we have an internal regulatory group that helps companies formulate their strategies. The benefit being that we get to, by seeing this number of INDs and the number of pre -INDs, we can really help companies formulate their strategy based on real information that we've seen from FDA. Of course, we're very careful to create firewalls with proprietary information between different partnerships.

Still, there's a lot of generalities that we can draw around what are FDA's points of emphasis, what are the gray areas, what are the black and white issues. If there's a very clear cut line that FDA draws, like, you know, we're not allowing you to do this, you have to do it this way, it's better to know that upfront, and we don't even have to discuss that with them. But on the other hand, these gray areas,

are where lots of times companies often take a very conservative approach because they don't want to be put on clinical hold or things like that. But with our experience, we can say even that, we have experienced that's okay with FDA. And that often saves companies quite a bit of time and resources on the regulatory interactions. So.

Harsh Thakkar (25:45.698)

Right, right. Yeah, and also from like a company that's in the early R &D stages or preclinical stages, and if they are doing everything on their own or maybe they're partnering with the CDMO, the companies that are working with CTMC, they now get immediate access from the day they sign the partnership agreement.

Jason Bock (25:47.623)

So that's a really important aspect.

Harsh Thakkar (26:12.738)

you know, access to the talent at MD Anderson, access to resources from Resilience. Not that they're gonna use everything from day one, but they have that access if they need to make a phone call or, you know, send some emails to answer. They now have literally, you know, four or three or four established organizations who understand the entire end -to -end life cycle, which probably is for a small company with 50 people that's doing it by themselves, they don't have that advantage, right?

Jason Bock (26:42.184)

That's right. And some companies we work with only have five people. 50 people is great, but some of them only have five people and are yet able to enable a clinical study in complex manufacturing with a relatively small capital -efficient footprint.

Harsh Thakkar (26:47.906)

Hmm.

Harsh Thakkar (27:04.066)

That's so mind -boggling like this just a company with that just five people or even like yeah I can't imagine how it is. Yeah it's very interesting.

Jason Bock (27:16.232)

Yeah. And Harshik comes in going back to what you asked earlier, how did we conceptualize this upfront? Remember our original founding was to help MD Anderson faculty members come up with industrial INDs and bring those into clinic. And so in many ways, that's really the purview of a biotech company. In traditional ways, you would like spin a company out to do that. But MD Anderson with its scale,

Harsh Thakkar (27:33.634)

Hmm.

Jason Bock (27:44.296)

was able to create this group within MD Anderson. So almost like MD Anderson's internal biotech to develop cell therapies. And so then when you think about some of the projects we work with, with faculty members, there's usually just a professor and a postdoc who work on the project at research stage. And then we partner with them and we do everything else necessary to get that product through an IND and set up a clinical study at MD Anderson. So when you...

Harsh Thakkar (28:01.282)

Hmm.

Jason Bock (28:13.672)

think about it in that context, that's why if a company's like, well, we only have five people, we're like, okay, we've done IDs when we only have a professor and a postdoc.

Harsh Thakkar (28:23.49)

Right, right. Yeah, collaboration is the magic word right there. Yeah. And it's happening all over the industry. You know, this is one example. I had talked to somebody else, you know, doing other kinds of CDMO work and other projects. But overall, I'm seeing this trend where a lot of companies are going virtual manufacturing from day one. They're keeping pretty much everything they can out of the company, contracting it.

collaborating instead of trying to do everything in house because, you know, speed and quality is needed from day one and it's always best to partner with people who've already done that, then try to do it on your own.

Jason Bock (29:07.176)

Yeah, that's exactly right. The challenge is if you don't have a lot of internal resources to have tight oversight of outsourcing, that you would be very...

Harsh Thakkar (29:18.626)

Mm.

Jason Bock (29:23.848)

you know, selective in who you partner with and that they have a high level of competence. And just understanding whether picking a partner who brings a lot of that expertise to the table versus other types of arrangements can be where, you know, if you have a hundred or 150 person company or even a 50 person company and you develop your own process and you can basically say, hey,

Harsh Thakkar (29:26.082)

Yep.

Jason Bock (29:48.648)

CMO run exactly this process. I don't have a facility, but I know the exact process. I can almost write the batch records for you, and I need you to just execute that. That's a different model. It's valid. It can work in the right situation. But just don't, for companies, not to mix up the models. And you know.

Harsh Thakkar (29:51.266)

Hmm.

Harsh Thakkar (30:10.946)

Yes.

Yeah, so I haven't been to Houston, but I keep hearing from tons of people that Houston is the next big, you know, biotech hub after Jersey, Boston, San Francisco, Chicago. Like, yeah, these have been there, but Houston is the next big thing. So what is so fascinating about since you've been there for this long, you've been there for a few years now.

Jason Bock (30:39.336)

Yeah, well, besides the excellent restaurants, which is a good feature, I think what's interesting, I think cell therapy is really the linchpin for Houston's evolution in biotech. And that is related to what we talked about before, that adjacency to patients makes...

Harsh Thakkar (30:44.834)

Yep.

Harsh Thakkar (30:58.146)

Mm -hmm.

Jason Bock (31:08.296)

cell therapy much easier. And what Houston has that's different than other cities is a high density of patients in the Texas Medical Center. So the Texas Medical Center is an area that was zoned for not -for -profit medical centers. And so, unfortunately, I have this camera on and not the one right behind me where you could see the medical center.

Every building on the other side of the camera is a high -rise hospital that sees a tremendous number of patients. And it's all in the same place, in the Texas Medical Center in Houston. And so that patient density makes things a lot easier for cell therapy developers. And the knowledge and the concentration.

Harsh Thakkar (31:47.714)

Hmm.

Jason Bock (32:07.56)

So I've been really excited to see this evolution in Houston. Over the five years I've been here, it started before I got here, but I think I can see it accelerating. And I think cell therapy is gonna be really a driver.

Harsh Thakkar (32:26.946)

Yeah, and even for newer biotech companies who want to be in that area, whether they're partnering with CTMC or Anderson or just to be in that area to have access to investors or the community or whatever. Real estate wise, I think Houston is also much favorable compared to Palo Alto or South San Francisco or Kendall Square in Cambridge.

Jason Bock (32:49.48)

much lower income tax as well.

Harsh Thakkar (32:50.914)

Yep, yeah. Yeah, it's great. What are some of, I wanna ask you this, you've had a very influential career in this industry, you're doing a lot of amazing things. I know a lot of people in the industry look up to you and probably come to you for advice on how you've built a career, but are there any leaders that you worked in your career that gave you,

some valuable advice that you would like to pass on to others.

Jason Bock (33:23.592)

question.

Jason Bock (33:27.624)

Yeah, I mean so many, but at least one comes to mind, an early mentor I had at Human Genome Sciences, Indra Sanyal, and he told me something that I really liked that was it's important to, you know, maintain focus while creating vision. And so...

Harsh Thakkar (33:55.714)

Mmm.

Jason Bock (33:57.096)

Being able to do both of those at the same time is really important. And I think probably all have seen some visionaries who are great at laying out a grand vision, but then aren't able to execute. Seen some people who are fantastic at tactics, but maybe, okay, going in the wrong direction. So the ability to have a vision, have a North Star, if you will, and you may zig and zag along that way.

I'll be the first one to say, when I moved down to Houston, I didn't have at all the vision of exactly what we created. It was just new in general.

Jason Bock (34:44.744)

Manufacturing for cell therapies was gonna be key. Connection with patients was gonna be important. Being associated with MD Anderson, oncology was gonna be the way. So there were all the ingredients there. But then as one opportunity to another laid out, oh wow, this is a way of even accelerating having an impact. And so I think that's a concept that's always.

Harsh Thakkar (35:05.186)

Right, right.

Jason Bock (35:11.72)

resonating with me be thinking of the big picture, but just making sure that every step you take is at least partially in that direction towards that non -stop.

Harsh Thakkar (35:20.642)

Yeah, I love hearing that. And I can tell you that in the 35 minutes that we've been talking, I think you've had the vision and I think you've done a really amazing job at executing what you had thought about. So yeah, wish you tons of success with CTMC and everything that you're doing.

Jason Bock (35:40.264)

Harsh, thank you so much for the conversation. And I know you mentioned you hadn't been to Houston. You have a standing invitation. And...

Harsh Thakkar (35:45.858)

Yep. I will message you at the moment I'm getting on the flight. All right. Yeah. And before we sign off, where can people, you know, listeners who are listening or any companies or startups that are interested in working with CTMC or wanting to talk to you, pick your brain. What's the best way to get to you?

Jason Bock (35:51.816)

Okay, that'd be great. Look forward to hosting you.

Jason Bock (36:08.232)

Yeah, the best way to find me is on LinkedIn, Jason Bach. And the best way to connect into CTMC is also on LinkedIn or on our website, just www .ctmce .com.

Harsh Thakkar (36:23.394)

All right, that's the pod. Thank you, Jason. Appreciate it.

Jason Bock (36:26.952)

Arch, thanks so much for the conversation. I really enjoyed it.

Harsh Thakkar (36:29.25)

Yep. Bye.