Building a Five Star Career: Tips from Quality Management Pro, Penelope Przekop

Penelope Przekop: 0:00

I just think in QA, we are trained and taught and become comfortable with telling people kind of what maybe they don't love to hear. But, but that's our job like, and we all know that we're doing it because we're here to help.

Harsh Thakkar: 0:15

What's up everybody? This is Harsh from qualtivate.com. And you're listening to the life sciences 360 podcast. On this show, I chat with industry experts and thought leaders to learn about their stories, ideas and insights, and how their role helps bring new therapies to patients. Thanks for joining us, let's dive in. All right, welcome to another episode of Life Sciences 360. My guest today is Penelope Przekop. And she is the CEO at PDC pharma strategy. She's also the author of the book five star career, how to define and build yours using the science of quality management. So welcome to the show, Penelope.

Penelope Przekop: 0:53

Thank you, thank you for having me.

Harsh Thakkar: 0:55

I think you are the third person on this show. That's an author. And I like talking to people who write or actually the fourth person might be the fourth person, because I had one other author on the show. And I asked her like, why did you decide to write and she mentioned that one of her mentors, when she was in the industry had this idea of leaving breadcrumbs behind. So that mentor would write blog posts and you know, knowledge articles, and then slowly that propagated into writing a book and leaving something behind for others who are following. So I want to pose the same question to you, what was your why for for writing the book?

Penelope Przekop: 1:38

So I have to start off by saying that I've always wanted to be a writer. Right. So I wanted to be a writer before I wanted to be a pharma consultant. Yeah, not that I don't love that. I want to be that too. But I just always been writing. So for this particular book, five star career. It does have to do with wanting to leave something behind, I wrote, I wrote an earlier book, six sigma for Business Excellence, which McGraw Hill published. And so I had that that was great. Now, this book really was my project, or or chance to bring together several things that are important to me. And one is the you know, pharma industry and what I do in the industry, which you know, is quality and compliance, and then, really some of my own personal life, because through the years, I began to realize that the concepts of quality management were also impact, they were being impactful to me in a very personal way. And that was just super important to me, because I grew up in a really unstable home and basically had childhood trauma and that I was dealing with, and there's just so much I learned about quality management that I internalized, and which is really powerful. And so this book really brings that together, right. And I'm just so passionate about the science of quality management, and that there's so many other applications for it, that people are not really, really focusing on or thinking about and, and so that's really what I want to talk about in that book. But I do talk a lot about the pharma industry. It's my examples. And I mean, a lot, so so it's all tied together. So it's really important to me.

Harsh Thakkar: 3:43

is there a particular role, or a particular project or particular period in your career, when you were in pharmaceutical or life sciences industry, that has a long lasting impact on you? It's like 20 years from now, you could remember that day like it was yesterday, you could remember the people, like any any particular moment in your career, that that had a long lasting impact on you.

Penelope Przekop: 4:12

Yeah, I mean, there's a few, but um, I mean, this probably doesn't sound very impactful. But after I'd been working for maybe five or six years, and I was young, and it was kind of like I finally have more than one thing on my resume. Yeah. But I had already my whole career, I've really had the opportunity to work across functions. And even already I was doing that. And at that time, I was like, This is terrible. I know people that have been in Data Management for six years, and now they're ready to move up. But I've done GLP lab and I've done GCP auditing, and I've been in regulatory affairs, and I was like, all worried, but then it really struck me that there was such a common thread through everything that I had done that was quality. And I said this is what I like. And it so that was it was just one of those moments where I felt like okay, now I know where what my road is right. And so that's why it was really impactful. For me. I remember the exact moment when. So that was really important there's other things. But that was early on.

Harsh Thakkar: 5:24

you've been in the industry way longer than I have. So I want to ask you this, because you probably have a different answer to this than I would have. How have you seen quality management evolve from, like your first role in quality to where you are today? Yeah, I know. That's a loaded question.

Penelope Przekop: 5:46

Question. That's my favorite question. Because I just I don't sometimes I'm like nerdy about it. I, I really have. It's exciting to me now that I've been through this whole transition, right? So when I started out, for example, in my very first quality job, I worked at Hoechst Roussel, I don't know if anybody's still that was a big pharma company. And my boss was working with the group who were first putting together ICH guidelines, like, nobody knew what it was. I mean, it was like this group of people. And one of the things that she had me do for her was review. And it was like these two pieces of paper with a ruler. Make sure that what they were writing down, like some parts of the regs that were exactly right, it's just a easy QC kind of thing but now when I look back, and I think, of course, I didn't write them I wasn't on the committee. I was just real young then. But was like, Oh, I actually was, had a little piece of doing that, it was just really neat. But anyway, so that was kickoff of it. And then as far as quality management, there's QA and quality management, which of course, are very dovetail. But I've really seen a transition. And I don't think we're all the way there yet of even QA a lot of QA individuals, really understanding the overall quality management, science and concepts. And I have a master's degree in that. Right. So I know that stuff. And when I first heard about it, I was working at Covance. And I heard about I think it was the QCIT that GMP that QCIT program, GMP. And I was reading it. And everybody was saying, well, this doesn't apply to us because I was in clinical data management. And I was like, well, this makes a lot of sense. I start reading. And I learned about six sigma. And I wanted to go to the training, and they sort of like laugh and they're like, Oh, that's really expensive. We're not letting you do that. But then I was like, but I could get you could pay for my master's degree. Or like, oh, yeah, we'll pay you for that. So anyways, that's so I ended up going and studying that. But but that was all sort of just very people in clinical. We're just like, well, that has nothing to do with us with nothing. But we know the whole history of how it's not ICH but well, ICH but the quality management came into industry and all that. I mean, absolutely. is the foundational concepts for all of the regulations that we have. So anyways, I don't know if that was a great answer. But I mean, because I could talk for hours for that one question.

Harsh Thakkar: 8:37

Yeah, that's, that's a that's a good, that's a good segue into kind of another related question I had, which is, obviously since you started in quality, and where where you are today working with clients or working on projects, I'm sure you've seen the use of technology be 10x or 20x. From when you started in your career. And now with we've seen like FDA is writing guide, not guidance, but like knowledge, articles on use of AI or use of automation, those kinds of things, maybe Internet of Things, smart manufacturing, like all of these technology advancements. So what is your like? What is your take on? Where do you see this going? Like, how do you how do you see quality changing? Because it's not like the older days where you're visually inspecting the bad product on the line, putting it out and manually checking things off? I'm sure there are some cases and some industries who still do that, but many are directly talking about digitization and paperless factory from day one. So right how do you see that technology impacting quality?

Penelope Przekop: 9:57

Well, I definitely think that um, Anybody who's in quality and especially, maybe not super close to retirement should definitely embrace that and learn as much as they can. And I think that's easier for the younger generation. I kind of think of it as, like my age. And then the middle, and then the, the newbies. Right? The newbies are very technologically savvy and comfortable, right. So I just, I just do feel like I know going through it all myself and other colleagues, we we kind of resisted some of it. Although I don't think I've strongly resisted. I thought it was exciting. But we just can't do that anymore. If there's anybody doing that. So because you might say, oh, yeah, well, I know. I'm okay. But now there's AI I mean, it's gonna just keep going, I'm sure. And I think that QA professionals need to really well to adapt and think about, like you said, maybe it's, it's going to be a different skill set. And what I see more and more is, with all this technology, that there's so many people that don't know how to properly document or tell the story, right? Yep. Make sure everything's validated or know which ones do need to be validated? And why and how's that documented? How can I nicely show it, you know what I mean? And I think that's really critical. And so I'm just trying to think, I do think processes are always going to be there, like, people are always gonna have people and even though some people's people are going away, but we still need people? So I think we just I don't, I don't know what's to come. But I do think it's going to definitely be more technological. And with the robotics and everything, we already have that but even more, I just think we can't all get scared and think like, because you could sit around and get scared about it like, Well, why should I even try, like, AI is gonna tell everybody what to do. But I don't think that's going to really be the case.

Harsh Thakkar: 12:23

Yeah, to me, like, it's always, if you read any of the regulatory documents, or guidances, or any other articles, the common theme is that it always comes down to people process and technology. Right? So technology now is doing a lot of the heavy lifting that maybe 20 years ago was done by people. And therefore a lot of rules have changed. And technology is doing the lifting, which is why there's this fear, like is AI gonna take my job. That's a fear between the people and the technology, right. But and you said like the process, the process is not going to change regulatory documents and guidances regulations that have been written by the FDA. Back when the Food Drug and Cosmetic Act was written, many of them have evolved, but they're not gone. Like they're still there and the same idea is still there.

Penelope Przekop: 13:15

Yeah. But I do think that the really the more technical knowledge that anybody can have, it's going to be really important. But at the same time, you still have to have those soft skills. And I don't want to put people in, in buckets. But it's, it's, it's got this whole idea that I'm a technical person. I'm a liberal arts person like that. Yeah, yeah. You know, we have to stop thinking that way.

Harsh Thakkar: 13:39

Why do you think so? You've been in a lot of leader leadership roles, and you've worked with many clients. Why do you think? Or what are some of the reasons like people resist technology? Have you? Have you seen a trend like, oh, here we go. Again, this person does not like technology because of X and Y and Z.

Penelope Przekop: 14:00

Yeah, what I think a lot of it, though, like, for smaller companies, for sure, has to do with budget. And I don't want to make a blanket statement. But well, I kind of take that back. I don't know if it really has to do with budget. I mean, how much money they have, I think it has to do with what they think they're supposed to be spending their money on. And I see a lot of small companies not wanting to have electronic systems, right. And yet, they are like thinking we don't need it yet. We don't need it yet. We don't need it yet. Our vendors have it, but what's what used to be maybe your vendor had something. You had one vendor, but now you have like, I mean, it's better to have less than more, but when you think about clinicals CMC that your analytical labs, I mean, everybody's having the systems and if you're sitting there thinking, Well, I'm gonna have oversight of all of this, but I don't need my I don't need a system. It almost just doesn't make sense. And I think people are just so busy in the small companies, in big companies too. Even in big companies, people don't want to get the new system because it's gonna be a headache. Right? And it is, I mean, it's tough, right? You get, you have to transition. And but honestly, I, I don't know how this is gonna happen, but I really feel like everybody just needs to slowdown. You know, just slow down, because it's like a ball rolling down a hill. And if everybody could just slow down, everybody wants to speed up always has since I started, because the faster you get to market, the less money theoretically you spend, that's all relative, but the more money you're gonna make sooner, all that but just I just worried, and I don't want to be negative. But if we have so many more people doing that a disjointed industry and so many more pharma companies, right? All these vendors, if everybody's doing that, that's where you could have a point where something happens that we don't happen. So we want people I want to trust the products I'm taking. How old am I, 20-30 years from now, if I'm still here. And I want to feel like my grandson's his generation is gonna have it. So anyways, I again, I don't want to come across negative. But I do think in QA, we're trained and taught and become comfortable with telling people kind of what maybe they don't love to hear. But but that's our job like, and we all know that we're doing it because we're here to help.

Harsh Thakkar: 16:45

Yes, yes. Yeah, it's an interesting time to be working in pharma industry, and also in just in quality and compliance, because things are changing, especially with technology. Technology's playing a big part in how things are changing. And I think I had this discussion with another guest or a friend, I don't remember, but it's more that the quality role is going to become better. And it's going to require people to be more creative, and focus more on decision making, rather than just executing tasks or documenting something just for the sake of documenting, like, that's still happening a lot. But I feel like that's going to change a lot, huge in Yeah,

Penelope Przekop: 17:38

one thing I was just thinking too, though, is I'm seeing a lot of people who are not I'm just being honest, the best writers, or they're creating forms, even even electronic forms that are not well done. Right. Right. It seems like you know, when you're you know, depending on what you're doing, like thinking of how forms created seems can seem kind of silly, right? But it actually, there's so many reasons why you need to have a good form, you know, because that is your documentation for later. And so, I do think people, you know, of course, with focusing on technology, and being flexible, and like you said, creativity, I don't know how we're going to do this, but you know, I'm hoping in the school systems and whatever, you know, that people do continue to embrace, like writing and how to logically look at something. Does that make sense? Because I think a lot of QA people, I would imagine, you know, I'm just kind of imagining but say everybody's, it's all technology, well, then you've got to have these people that understand that but also understand still how to document what happened and you know, it's just gonna be a different format, or what have you. But I see a lot of issues with that, though, that people are still just not capturing the right information or so.

Harsh Thakkar: 19:06

I want to I want to get some thoughts from you, because I was in the industry for 15 years. And then last year, I had, I wouldn't call it like a moment, but it was just like, a time where I felt like, Okay, this is I've had enough. I need something different. I don't know what it is, but I just cannot like go from one role to another or just get promoted or go to a different role. And then I'm, I'm going and then I'm just doing similar stuff, in a different company. So I would, I can put it as I wanted a new challenge. That's a good way to put it. And I was like, Okay, I'm gonna give myself 12 months and see how this goes. And if it doesn't go, well, I'll go back to what I'm doing. And that's kind of, yeah

Penelope Przekop: 19:59

And that's when you became a consultant?

Harsh Thakkar: 20:01

yes, yeah. So so that's when I started Qualtivate last year to become a consulting company. And I'd always been passionate about science and tech. So when I started Qualtivate, it was more like, How can I as a quality, professional, embrace technology, and do things differently? And then how can I help clients do the same thing, right? So like, if I can find an AI or automation tool to do a quality task, quality assurance task? How can I then maybe explain that to a client and say, Okay, here's how you can also use this tool. We can validate it this way, we can document it this way, and maybe be like one of those early adopters of technology. So I want to, I want to ask you, since you're also in the consulting space with PDC pharma strategy, what was like? What made you start that? And and any advice you would have from your learnings that you can share with me?

Penelope Przekop: 21:14

Yeah, so I was working at J&J. And it was, when they had this sort of, well, was 2008 housing crisis. And everybody's laid off. And so J&J had the layoffs and that, and I got caught up in that. And it was just never happened to me before. It was very shocking. But I got through it. And then a friend of a friend of mine, and my husband had just finished a law degree, and he was doing some consulting. And then he got offered a job with the FDA. So he was looking for someone to take over his consulting role. So I did that. And I did that for about a year, then I went back to a permanent role. Like, I wasn't feeling myself, I was feeling myself in between, right. So I'd like to permanent role for almost a couple years. And it was during that time that I realized, I don't want to do this. I like consulting. And then I really started to think about and I had, I had quite a bit of experience, you know, already by then, but I didn't know how to get work. Right? Then I just did a lot of research. And I started by taking doing subcontracting with other established consulting companies. And it was really good because through them, I really learned sort of the ins and outs of being a consultant, I didn't know anything about how to choose my rate, or how to what kind of contracts I needed. That just wasn't my kind of world before then. So I did that for you know, several years. And was doing really well and loved it. And then I, I ended up doing I don't know, if it's an audit or mock inspection with this other person, this man and he was older and, and he was a consultant and like, independent, right? And, and he just told me, he said, You have enough experience, you just need to go out on your own. And he kind of gave me some advice. And I thought, yeah, I could do that. And, but that also is when I really, by that time, felt like I had a passion about the industry and where it was heading. And all the small companies say I already was seeing that they didn't know what they needed in terms of like a quality system and everything. So my master's degree was quality, basically, quality systems engineering. So I said, Well, I'm gonna just go out there and say, This is what I'm going to help you with. And, and so it went well, and I really liked that because I had sort of a niche for myself. But I still do all kinds of things. But, um, but yeah, so I, I dipped my toe in it, and then eventually just set me up. That's what I need to do. But it is scary. Especially. I don't know if scary is the right word, but like I was looking at a partner husband who had a full time job and would have insurance. You know what I mean, so I wasn't working full time. Like right away. It took me a while before I was consistently working 40 hours a week or more every week. Right. So I think you have to be willing, you have to be realistic and realize you could have some downtime, right?

Harsh Thakkar: 24:43

Yeah, that's that's the that's one of the cons of being a consultant that you do have the unpredictability of. You don't know if you're gonna have the project or contract beyond three months like you might be able to project three months out but even six months A lot can happen in six months.

Penelope Przekop: 25:02

Right? Well, and I really learned to look ahead. And if I had a contract like that, I would just at the very beginning, I'd say, okay, two months before this is up, I'm gonna start talking to you. Because if you don't need me anymore, that's, that's fine. But I need to know ahead of time because then I will start figuring out my plan. I see some people don't do that. I don't know. I don't know why there's different reasons. But and now all of a sudden, they're like, what? Oh, my God. Yeah. So.

Harsh Thakkar: 25:33

So you, I wanted to ask you this about your, your book, when you when you wrote the book? What kind of feedback did you get, whether positive or negative? Was there something that people said, when they read your book that you want to share with us that you're like, whatever, is it positive or negative? Doesn't matter?

Penelope Przekop: 25:55

Yeah, no, I mean, I've had all positive. I wish I had more, you know, reviews online, I'm working on that. My husband's like, well, I don't know if people that read this kind of book are like always doing reviews. Like, yeah, that's a reason. Yeah, um, but yeah no, people have gone out of their way to write me emails, you know, and say, wow, like, this really resonated with me. And one thing I loved about that is, I had actually one of the, a younger person who worked for the publisher, and was assigned doing something on the book, she wrote to me, and she said, I'm not going to forget this book, and I'm going to apply this to my life. And it just was really meaningful to me. And then, like, just recently, a physician, I go to that kind of a friend to, he read it. And so he's, he's like, my age. And he's not somebody who I think, has a career problem. Or maybe he has like, two practices and whatever. But he just came in with the biggest smile on his face. And he said, Oh, my gosh, like, I can relate to so much in that book. And I can, because that was my goal. Because my whole point is, and we didn't get into it too much. But a five star career is not what somebody else says it is. Right? Like, it's what it's what you authentically are going to love and be passionate about and feel good about. And I hear a lot of people that's saying to me well, how do I know what I want to do? And that's the age old question. And it takes some time to figure that out, of course, but but in the book, I talk a lot about the decision making and thinking about what it's like you you've kind of yoga career, but you kind of felt like, I don't know. So a lot of people feel that way. And they just they don't do anything about and then eventually, they just, I don't know, but it's like you have to be self reflective, self reflective and kind of think about well, why do I, Why do I feel this way? And but I talk about that a lot in the book in terms of how to think about it and the decision making in terms of Will you stay or go like, there's a lot of nurses right now, my daughter's a nurse, and they love nursing, like, they love caring for patients, but they're so frustrated, and so burnt out, and by the health care system, and through COVID and, and it's like, well, then I have to leave, I have to leave the one thing I love, is helping people. So and I'm hoping in the future, I literally want to go to hospitals and talk to nurses and doctors and when just it's like a way to look at it to say, well, let me make this decision. And maybe I'm going to stay. But I'm going to have to know that this is my choice. So then I have the responsibility not to go there every day. And the all negative and like like, I know some people say what it's the data? No. That sounds harsh, but really, you have a choice and what you do how you feel about it. So it's just but it's hard because there's so many different scenarios. But anyways, I'm really happy that these different in some people from different I guess age groups and career have come and said the same thing to me. And that is so rewarding to me because it made me feel like okay, like I got I succeeded on that message. That human human spirit.

Harsh Thakkar: 29:35

Yeah, I'm actually looking forward to reading the book. I know I haven't I'm traveling and I wasn't able to get a copy but I'm looking for it. And I completely agree with you on the part that a five star career or even just a career is not something like yes, people are like growing up in India, a five star career was somebody being a doctor or an engineer or going into computers, right. So like, even today, there's a lot of families in India whose were parents stressed that their kids go into those STEM fields, and then become that and it's even. It goes even beyond that, because then when parents are looking for like arranged marriages and relationships, there's more value. If you say, like, Oh, my son is a daughter, or my daughter is a is a daughter, like, and then there's the signaling of oh, they live abroad, they live in UK, there a doctor from Harvard.

Penelope Przekop: 30:38

But who are they really?

Harsh Thakkar: 30:40

Exactly right, right.

Penelope Przekop: 30:41

I just loved it to talk about because I'm a parent, too. And our daughters, we have two daughters who are 11 years apart. So they and my husband and I were the same people. But obviously, we learned a lot. And our older daughter, we used to say, even if you want to be a ditch digger, like, if you're happy, you just be the best ditch digger and and I do understand that in a sense. But I do think it's important to explain to children and young people, if you want to be that, that's wonderful. But you have to know all about it. And part of it is you're not going to make the same salary as the doctor. Now, if you don't care about that, and you are good at living within your means, then it would like be your life dream. But if you're not good at that, and or you really do long to have nice things. That's not bad. I grew up in the South in the US. And it's like, I remember I was in pre med at first. And it's like, almost like, I felt embarrassed to act like well, I want to do this because it it's a lucrative career. I mean, that is not only why I want to do it. I want to do it for a lot of reasons. But it was sort of like, shameful. So but now we're like we told our younger daughter, we're like, follow your passion, but just realize like, you have to

Harsh Thakkar: 32:10

Oh, yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it's I mean, we could pay the bills. talk about I, I talk about this topic with a lot of people, people that asked me for mentorship or just even other friends and family. And it's really important because like, like you said, somebody might want a career because of all the monetary or social benefits that come with being in that profession, right? Like a doctor or lawyer like, or a surgeon, you might want to be like, I read articles were like, Oh, here's the top 10 professions in the US and you have surgeons making like 400 500,000. But like, if you have somebody in healthcare, like my wife is in healthcare, and she's like, Yeah, but, that they have to work 16 hour shifts, right. And they shower in the in the hospital, and some of them even commit suicide, or they crash their car, because they're basically sleep deprived? Yeah, and they have to do a surgery. So like, there's everything has a behind the scenes.

Penelope Przekop: 33:11

But, yes, if I do think there's people who love their career, and because they make a lot of money, and that's what they love. It doesn't make them a bad person. And that's wonderful. So it's, it's just, I don't know, I, I really, when I first started working, I was working in the lab. And now I'm so glad that I did. Because I have a degree in biology. I know how Lab works. I know GLP and everything. So that's very valuable to me. But I never particularly like it. I knew I wasn't going to progress unless I got a PhD, right? Yep. So at one point, I just thought, well, I don't really want to come to work every day. But since I have to, I'm just gonna focus on doing the best I can so that I can move up now, for me, it wasn't even about money. It was, I want to move up so I could do something else. So I could, I didn't like people looking over my shoulder either. And I thought, if I move up, I have less people hearing over me, you know, and yeah, everybody has a different motivation. But anyways, my book I sound, sounds so conceited. I love it. But I do love it because it really gave me a chance to express. Again, we didn't say too much about it. But this all comes and aligns with the science of quality management because what five stars, what quality is, is literally satisfaction, right? You're going to be satisfied with that product. So this is the way around the world. Governments, armys, like industries. They literally have a science that says we're going to be able to get what we want. What we envision if we follow the science. So why would people not do it? That makes sense, right? So that's kind of my vision. I'm like, I just want to tell more people about this, because it really helped me in my life. Right now, some people don't don't need whatever kind of help, but I just know it can help people. So that means something to me. And that's like a breadcrumb right that I can leave behind.

Harsh Thakkar: 35:25

Yeah, that's really great. And yeah, I know, we're over time a little bit yet. Thank, I really want to thank you for coming on to the show and sharing about it. And then as soon as I get the copy of the book, I'm looking to dive into it for our listeners and viewers. How can they connect with you? How can they grab a copy of your book? Do you want to share those details?

Penelope Przekop: 35:47

Yeah, so um, the easiest way to kind of find out, everything is my sort of personal author, speaker website. And that's literally just my name, Penelope Przekop. com. My company website is PDC strategy.com. The book five star career, you know, it's on Amazon. It's there's also just about a month ago, the, electronic version came out. But you can get it from, you know, Barnes and Noble. You can just Google it, and you'll find it.

Harsh Thakkar: 36:25

Perfect. Yeah. Thank you. Like I said, thank you again, it was a pleasure talking to you. Any final thoughts before we wrap this up?

Penelope Przekop: 36:32

Oh, let's see. I didn't think of any in advance. But I just want to say thank you. And if you ever want to have me back, like, just let me know, because I just love having these conversations. And I really appreciate it. And I look forward to hearing what you think about the book. And I always tell people, if you love it, please tell me and write a review. If you don't love it, then you could just find something else to do with your time. And don't write a review

Harsh Thakkar: 36:57

Yeah. And don't write. Don't write a review if if you don't love it. you don't love it. Yeah. No, I'm sure with with your experience And I just I'm sorry, I have one last thing that just came to me. and career, if you put off. I'm sure you have a lot of insights What I really believe is that if people that we work with in the and experiences and stories that you you've probably packaged and put into that book. So I know that as a fellow industry, person and quality professional, there's something in there that I can learn from you.

Penelope Przekop: 37:26

Yeah, yeah. All right. Yeah, that's it. industry can embrace the concepts for themselves personally, I think it will help all of us on the job. Because it's learning about why why it works. Why we do Thank you so much. Thank you.

Harsh Thakkar: 37:54

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